Ep 20 Creativity: Insights from chef Thomas Keller on creativity and culture

Show notes

Stephen Gates shares a once-in-a-lifetime experience—having dinner with legendary chef Thomas Keller at his Michelin-starred restaurant Per Se in New York City. He opens the show by reflecting on how meaningful it was and encourages listeners to slow down and savor special moments in life.

He sets the stage for how the dinner came to be, why he follows chefs for inspiration, and how a simple contest submission on a morning train ride turned into a dinner with one of the world’s most revered culinary minds.

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The Contest That Sparked the Dinner

• Source of Inspiration: Stephen regularly uses Flipboard to stay updated on creativity and design. One of his curated feeds features chefs like Heston Blumenthal, Ferran Adrià, and Thomas Keller.

• The Opportunity: He discovers a contest via a Flipboard article hosted by Radiate, a leadership-focused company founded by Bloomberg anchor Betty Liu.

• The Prompt: Contestants had to submit an essay explaining the parallels between cuisine and leadership.

• Stephen’s Essay: He submitted a short story about Heston Blumenthal’s “butter rule” and the role of empathy in leadership and creativity.

• The Win: Weeks later, while sitting at Comic Con with his wife, he learns via email that he won the dinner with Thomas Keller.

 

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The Dinner: Key Players and Setting

• The Location: Private dining room at Per Se, overlooking the main dining room.

• Guests: Stephen, his wife, two other contest winners and their guests, Thomas Keller, and Ken Himmel.

• Ken Himmel: Real estate mogul behind the Time Warner Center and Hudson Yards, known for developing high-end retail and dining experiences.

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Five Major Insights from the Dinner

 

1.  Reframing Failure: The Fire at Per Se

• The Incident: Five days after opening, a fire broke out in Per Se’s kitchen causing major damage.

• Keller’s Response: Instead of seeing it as a disaster, he saw it as an opportunity to improve on every compromise made during the initial build.

• Lesson: Reframing setbacks as second chances can lead to even greater success. Don’t give up—reimagine.

 

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2.  Hiring for Endurance: Persistence and Patience

• Chef Keller’s Priorities:

  • Persistence: The ability to stick with creative or professional challenges.

  • Patience: Especially for young creatives, slowing down and mastering the basics before rushing forward.

   

• Stephen’s Reflection: These are essential values that are often overlooked in modern creative work. Too many creatives chase fast wins and titles over depth and mastery.

 

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3.  Hiring for Perspective: Passion and Travel

• Ken Himmel’s Qualities:

  • Passion: A non-negotiable driver for great work.

  • Travel Experience: Brings broader empathy and perspective. Those who’ve seen the world approach creativity differently.

   

• Stephen’s Takeaway: Seek out life experience. It shapes your approach to problems and creativity.

 

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4.  Culture Through Ritual: The Green Tape Story

• Origin: Keller discovered green painter’s tape as a cleaner alternative for labeling containers in the kitchen.

• Evolution: At Per Se, the act of cutting the tape (instead of tearing it) began as a small deviation and became a respected tradition.

• Cultural Symbols:

  • Green tape – cleanliness, care

  • “Sense of urgency” clocks

  • Finesse – etched into kitchen tile

  • Dining room lighting recreated in the kitchen to simulate guest experience

   

• Lesson: The best creative cultures are built on respect for detail, shared rituals, and openness to change.

 

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5.  Building a Team Like a Sports Franchise

• Stephen’s Question: How do you build a strong creative team knowing turnover is inevitable?

• Keller’s Answer: Run it like a sports franchise.

  • Major League Teams: Per Se and The French Laundry

  • Minor Leagues: Bouchon and Bouchon Bakery

  • Constantly recruit, coach, and promote new talent

  • Support team members in eventually leaving to start their own ventures

   

• Leadership Wisdom: Success isn’t about controlling people—it’s about developing them.

 

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Additional Lessons and Reflections

 

Leadership Through Humility

• Respect for All: Chef Keller calls every employee “Chef,” from dishwashers to sous chefs—a symbol of shared respect.

• Stephen’s Reflection: Leaders must remember to show humility and respect at every level to foster belief and buy-in.

The Power of Empathy in Design

• Customer Perspective: Details like lighting and tablecloths are replicated in kitchen prep areas to simulate the guest experience.

• Echoes of the Butter Analogy: Great design (like great food) comes from walking in the shoes of your audience.

 

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Final Thoughts: Luck and Preparation

Stephen closes with a reflection on luck:

• “Luck is the residue of skill.”

• Meaning: You must do the work, invest in growth, and stay prepared so that when luck presents itself, you’re ready to rise to the occasion.

 

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Recommendations and Links

• Check out: RadiateInc.com for leadership-focused content

• Follow: @PerSeNY on Twitter for nightly kitchen sayings and behind-the-scenes inspiration

• Watch: Thomas Keller’s TED Talk (linked in the show notes)

 

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Stay Connected

• Show notes and links: podcast.stephengates.com

• Contact: ask@stephengates.com

• Follow Stephen: On Instagram and Twitter for photos and future reflections

 

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Closing Message

“Time is the only true luxury we have. Thank you for spending any of it with me. I hope you’re walking away a little more inspired than when we started. Until next time—stay crazy.”

Tagged as:
building culture business success creativity culinary excellence effective leadership h hiring talent Hudson Yards industry insights Ken Himmel leadership luxury retail development Per Se Thomas Keller three Michelin Star World Trade Center