Episode 104

#SHARETHEMICNOW:

Working in Tech While Black part 1 by Jackie Velasquez Ross, Dorcie Lovinsky, and Christian Clark

The third of the #ShareTheMicNow episodes was created by Jackie Velasquez Ross (senior recruiter), Dorcie Lovinsky (engineering manager), and Christian Clark (strategic renewals manager) sharing their history, struggles, and hopes of what it is like to be black and work in the tech industry.

Jackie Velasquez Ross has have never met a stranger. She is one of those people that can strike up a conversation with anyone, connect, relate, and make them feel comfortable. She has a background in Communications that is influenced by her personal and professional interest in people, culture, and media. 

Dorcie Lovinsky is a creative, intelligent, ambitious Data Engineer in the New York area who is passionate about providing data analysts and product teams the necessary data regarding end-users’ interactions with products. 

Christian Clark is a collaborative results-driven leader incorporating innovative thought, effective product storytelling, and maximum support to initiate long-term relationships and improve an organization’s overall value, growth, and clients’ success. 


Listen now:


Steve Gates 0:00
What’s going on everybody and welcome into the 104th episode of the crazy one podcast as always, my name is Steve Gates. And today we continue to share the mic now series of shows. Now the show today is brought to you by three incredible people. Jackie Velazquez, Ross, Dorsey levinsky and Christian Clark. Now I’ve been lucky enough to work in the same company as them. I have Jackie and I’d work together. She’s a senior recruiter for us. We’d worked together a little bit, Dorsey and Christian. I hadn’t had the opportunity to spend much time together, but they were a part of a meeting that took place a few months ago. That is one. I’m going to remember for the rest of my life. I think even as I think back to sort of what was the moment or the impetus to start to do my exploration that’s led to these shows. The three of them has a huge part to do with it because what they just did was they shared what is it like to work in tech while black and this is going to be the first time In a series of shows that they’re going to be putting together on that topic to be able to share who they are, what their experience has been, what their challenges have been. And this is another one of those cases where for me, hearing that perspective, hearing the energy hearing, the hope, hearing, so much of it is that is about them just is profoundly insightful. It is, again, I think, a call to action to understand what other people are going through. So again, it’s my incredible pleasure to be able to introduce Jackie Velazquez, Ross, Dorsey livanski and Christian Clark.

Jackie Velasquez Ross 1:37
This is working in tech while black, Christian Dorsey and myself Jackie are having a series of conversations together and with other tech professionals about our experiences as black people in our personal lives and also in our professional lives. We’re super excited to have you on this journey with us and we can’t wait for you to hear our stories. We’re having this chat this call and we decided to create this like mini podcast because a couple months ago, we saw the death of murder really, of George Floyd. And it just seemed like a mob Ruby like killed as well. And all the protests were happening and we happen to all work together. I didn’t vision we all do different things. And, you know, Dorsey and I had had some fun times together, but don’t work together directly. And Christian, you and I have never worked together either. But to be honest, we are all black people working at the company, and there’s not that many of us and I put together a panel for the company to listen to our stories of black people working at envision, but just the way that we move through the world and live our lives and our experiences and really beautiful in a really, really powerful conversation that we had. And I’m so grateful that you all decided to like barrier souls to all these people. And, you know, we agreed and decided that we wanted to have more conversations. And so I’m so excited to continue the conversation with you all and I kind of want to just like open it up like I did last time. I want to know how do you move through this world? Who are you?

Dorcie Lovinsky 3:15
Sorry, my dog is like having a moment right now. That figured out someone’s gonna come into our world right now. Is this a permanent? Yeah. So door Sylvan ski. I am formerly a software engineer slash data engineer slash, now engineering manager. Thank you, Jackie. And I’m through the world. Currently, just with this level of hope, hope for a future that will involve black folk like us. Being able to get chances and life that we don’t often get without feeling like we’re a statistic that are a box that’s being checked off, right? Getting like real chances. Getting like blind chances, like not seeing my face, just giving me a chance. I must say I’m very fortunate to have the name that I have Dorsey people are confused about levinsky everyone thinks I’m Polish or white or Yeah, all that. So on paper, I feel like I oftentimes do get that fair shot. And then when they meet me, they’re like, Oh, shit, like who you? Interesting story. When I was in ninth grade, I went to a Catholic High School, and my teacher was doing the road call and she’s like, so dorsa Lipinski and I raised my hand. And she does a double take. And she goes, when I was doing the roster during the summer, I thought you were going to be white. And I’m like, Well, I’m sorry, but I’m black. Like, what do you want me to do? But I oftentimes get mistaken just by name. And then they see me and they’re like, oh, but you’re black. And now we confused but I want a world where we move through and everyone has that chance. Like everyone has a white last name, right. And everyone is like, looked at as, Oh, you’re just a person, right? Like, I’m a person, you’re a person, give me a shot, give me a chance. And it’s not about who I know, or who I schmooze up to, in order to get an opportunity. It’s just afforded to me because I’m a great human being that works my little butt off all the time. Yeah, it’s me, Christian.

Christian Clark 5:23
Yeah. I mean, what a way to begin so many different nuggets. And I was like, Yes, plus one, two, that My name is Christian Clark. I am a strategic renewals manager here at Mission along with these lovely, lovely, strong, beautiful black women who stand beside me and have been for the last two months or so. It’s just been a wild ride. And I’m just so ever so grateful for both of you. Currently, as well. I’m hopeful. I’m a bit timid. I’ll say just because I’ve shared a lot. We’ve shared a lot And, you know, you have some people who are feeling, I don’t know, whether it’s, I would say put it on a spectrum of from guilt to shame and backwards, you know, back and forth. And it’s been a little like, tiptoeing around. But at the same time, I do have a cohort that is a support system, through my personal life and professional that have helped me to continue speaking out and continuing to encourage me to use my voice to make the change to be to not accept status quo anymore to not accept the Oh, well now, they’re just going to point fingers at me, but to actually redirect all of this uncomfortable and discomfort to say, Hey, you know, we’re just trying to raise awareness, trying to get you to be just as curious as lar to ignite change. Just that simple, I guess, is where I stand today.

Jackie Velasquez Ross 7:00
Yeah, thank you for sharing. And like for me, I mean, because I guess some people are maybe a couple people that don’t know us or listening, hopefully will listen. I am a black woman but I also happen to be mixed. And that’s an interesting part of my identity and how I show up the privileges I’ve also been given, but I’m half black African American and half Mexican American and my mother is white passing and so bad for me. I am so I must fight with different people about it. Some people say on my skin I don’t always think I’m like skin but apparently on my skin but okay, but I will tell you,

Christian Clark 7:40
oh, yo, yo,

look, I have the same battle. I have the same battle

Jackie Velasquez Ross 7:49
here and where I am and how much fun I’ve had okay. But I will say I have been afforded a lot of a lot of opportunity because of the way that I look. Can because of my last name, I use both of my last names. People take a double look or they’re like, interested because they’re like, Oh, what is she, I am a black woman, I have a black family, black partner of two black, little boys. And something that I really think about a lot is like being a mother and like, wanting to create a world in which my voice can thrive and can live and won’t be shot or killed or lunch or whatever it might be because they are black. I want them to live a carefree life. And I hope that they will be able to, but I’m not sure really honestly not sure. That’s why I share my story and why I talk to people about things and why I probably sometimes make people uncomfortable, because I want them to know that like my sons deserve to live just as much as any other person does, just as any other white

Christian Clark 8:51
child does.

Jackie Velasquez Ross 8:53
So I think that’s why it’s so important to talk about our experiences and to talk about the good things. The not so great things that have happened to us in our careers in our lives and to people like this is real. Like it’s not just like even though like we all are very well educated, quote unquote well spoken, we still have been discriminated against we still have faced injustice, we still have faced racism and sexism and all the intersections of all the isms. And so it’s not just people who you think are uneducated, or I hate to talk, I hate to talk about it, but it just it happens to all of us. It doesn’t matter because we’re black,

Dorcie Lovinsky 9:37
all black, all shades of black and

Jackie Velasquez Ross 9:40
also to economic statuses, all education levels, literally does not matter. We are seen as different we are seen as others, and that’s not okay. That is not okay. Because free country we live in the land of opportunity. And that’s not true for everyone. So I think it’s really important to have this conversation but so I’d love to hear like, how did you all get into tech? Like we’re here in 2020 living in a wild world of COVID and have a really honestly like a big time of change, which is exciting. And I’m that’s why I think we’re even able to have this conversation, but we’re also living in such weird and fragile time. So, I mean, how did you get to this point in time? Like what got you here?

Christian Clark 10:30
Yeah, it’s so I have a weird, unconventional you know, not to non traditional way that I’ve gotten to the seat that I’m in today, I began in pursuit of a career in opera. And Funny enough, I was never, you know, I chose the most elitist and some my say a lot may say racist art forms out there, but I was truly encouraged the full time that I studied and I never once felt like my color mattered anything. It was Oh, great. We finally have someone who is interested who looks this way who saint who has this talent who has this craft, let’s help him with a couple of rocks thrown my way, you know, throughout the like the journey like like you anyone expected or would expect with me. But after I ended that journey, I see how did I get there? I guess yeah, I had a friend who was also pursuing opera went to CCM, which is the college Conservatory of Music for University of Cincinnati, one of the top programs in the world and he ended up working for Yelp after college. And that was my first experience in New York. He was at the Chicago office. I thought Honestly, I was Living in Mean Girls working there, where I fit, I wouldn’t say that I was one of the unfriendly black bodies, but the latter two maybe. But it was interesting because it was just, I mean, many of the people who work there are very privileged. Right? And you could tell that the daddy mommy’s pocket book was there and they were they were having fun, whereas I was making ends meet. I was there. My, you know what off? Yeah, I wasn’t living in New York. I’d be on the street. And it was a great time that I had their great foundation that I built to learn the ways of corporate life and then when we decided to move from the city out to Palm Springs, California, it’s when I found it. envision through a remote community called remote IV and actually looked at the company on LinkedIn to see if I knew anyone. And one of my dear friends, Ethel reached out to me at the time to say Hey, are you know, we had a couple of conversations and then after that she’s like, I would love to refer you. And bada bing bada boom, I ended up at envision

Dorcie Lovinsky 13:26
on Wow, that’s pretty dope. It was in New York.

Christian Clark 13:31
Yeah. Three years. All right.

Dorcie Lovinsky 13:34
All right.

Why they love you so much, because I love you.

Christian Clark 13:41
I was born there. White Plains.

Jackie Velasquez Ross 13:45
Yes.

Dorcie Lovinsky 13:49
We got that we got that we got that.

My stories actually

laugh at the reason why I got here all the time. Right? Just because it leaves to who I am as a person, and like my thinking as a person. So in high school, we did the keirsey temperament test. And during that test it kind of like at the end, it tells you like all the jobs that you’d be good at. And so me being like, the internet was new, but there’s a lot of stuff on the internet. You know, me being who I am, I googled every salary of every position, or every job that they said that I’d be good at. and computer software was the one that made the most money. And I was like, Alright, cool. I’m going after that. Like this test told me that I’d be good at it. And it makes good money. There I am. So yeah, I decided that in college, I was going to major in computer science was completely doubted by the head of the department. First day day one, I go up to him during a fair and I’m like, Yeah, I want to be a computer science major. And he looks at me and goes, you know that that it requires a lot of work right? And I said, Yep. And that’s exactly what I want to do it. And that was it. And that was like that moment where I said, I will do this just because this man doubted me. Sure enough, a couple years after he asked me to start tutoring people, sure enough, a couple of years, years, years after that, he gave me my first job as a computer science professor at the same college. So yeah, so I basically went down this journey and said, This is what I want to do. I got an internship right out of college, worked for a little bit got laid off, restructured my life. And then yeah, worked for some nice names, like Adobe and Pepsi, worked for some crappy people who told me it wasn’t worth anything more, and pay me less than I got paid out of college. And I had a master’s degree at the time. And then yeah, then decided, one day, a friend of a friend I was looking for a new job a friend and friend was like, Hey, I got this. I know you’re looking to get into the data world and my friend works for this company called envision. Do you want to talk to her? And I’m like, Yeah, sure. Talk to her for a little bit over a phone call. And she was like, do want me to submit your resume? I was like, yeah, me. Let me see first checked out the company. They seemed pretty solid. Pretty cool. Love the vision. And then yeah, sure enough, she submitted my resume. And here I am trying to make moves in this remote world. I love remote, like a plug for remote working, which a lot of people are doing right now is that it allows you to live in an environment that you want to live in. And so I feel that in terms of like, my last company, I worked with a bunch of like, dudes, and it felt very, like Broly. And I of course, was like a little black girl who’s trying to be like, boys all the time. And I would said, I remember one time I walked into my manager’s office, or I walked into a meeting my manager and I was like, I don’t feel like I belong here. It’s like, Oh, yeah, you do. Everyone loves you. Yeah. I’m like, but I’m not like you’re like I’m, I’m different and no one is accepting the fact that I’m different and trying to bring me into the fold and it’s always like, you need to be like them in order to survive. And so this is why I love being remote so much more because I create all the beautiful things around me, right like my beautiful paddleboard, I have beautiful art looking at me, you know, like I don’t have to sit there and play with Nerf guns in an office because the boys are and I want to fit in. Right like I build my own life. So yeah, plug for being able to be who you organically are. And I feel like in this situation I’m in right now. I can actually do that. But yeah, I was chasing the money.

Jackie Velasquez Ross 17:46
That’s so interesting. Like, do you all feel like working remotely has been able to allow you to be more of yourself.

Dorcie Lovinsky 17:55
I feel like I’m more of myself on a day to day basis than working in an office and I think maybe because and I have to bring that back. Working in Manhattan is like a dog-eat-dog world, right, getting on that subway, dealing with all these different personalities, and then getting to work and then having to deal with another set of personalities. It’s something about not having the energy of other people, or being able to control that energy that allows me to continue to be me. I walk into a room, I’m bubbly, I’m happy. That’s just who I am, right? I don’t have someone else’s energy that’s like, in my face. I’m absorbing. That’s like, hating the world. Yeah, maybe I see them in a zoom and I just maybe don’t pay attention to their face as much. Right? And that’s just how that’s, I feel like this is such a better benefit to be in this space where I’m not dealing with too many people, or even like having to like, pass them on I don’t like or I don’t jive with what I call a spade a spade. I don’t have to like walk and go to the bathroom and be forced to say hello to someone. Right

Jackie Velasquez Ross 19:00
Really, do you feel safer as a black woman in this remote environment?

Dorcie Lovinsky 19:05
safer? I don’t know. It’s different, safer in terms of like, I’m not threatened, maybe. But I also feel like it’s harder to be seen,

Jackie Velasquez Ross 19:17
threatened by what?

Well,

Dorcie Lovinsky 19:20
threatened by like just people looking at me constantly and judging me. Right? It’s a lot. It’s a lot harder to judge someone on a zoom when you’re looking at them in this interaction, whereas when you’re in a room with a bunch of people, your voice gets drowned out a lot more. I feel. I feel like I can’t talk as much.

Christian Clark 19:40
Yeah, it’s so funny because I’m the exact opposite. Yeah, huh. Like I am. Even if it’s negative, I kind of get like, Okay, cool. I copy on that and like, I’ll take that to, you know, lift myself up even more but I am in During COVID, especially I have found that I’m just like an extreme extrovert and an introvert like, at like, set at some point right in my life like, or in my day to day I need a lot of people because I thrive off of that energy. And I think as well like my stature in person is completely different than just this square box. We all have said Oh, I thought you were shorter like Oh, I thought you were you know this not and then they see me in person and they’re like, oh, wow, yeah, damn Skippy.

Right. And don’t forget the shoes honey.

But it is that so funny like that. It’s I was in a conversation the other day or that about about this too. And so it’s funny to hear, you know, the contrasts and comparisons of what people have to say so

Dorcie Lovinsky 21:07
interesting, because I think that that’s such a great point that we’re big, like, you’re bigger than this box, right? But I feel like this box put you at a different level. And I feel like it levels people out a lot more, where your stature doesn’t intimidate me because you’re this big man who, you know, like, so I walk into a room and I don’t have to, like walk into a room and exude this like level of shoulders back chest open, like big bravado. I could just turn on my video and be like, what up y’all and then turn it off when I don’t want to see y’all you know, like, so it allows people to hide more. But I also think that it levels the playing field but then I think that’s a disadvantage to people who like you were just saying Christian where you drive off of this, this energy and this Roboto and being able to keep yourself big and big without any I think as a female, this is possibly a little bit immature to hear how you feel Jackie, but I feel like this is it levels off my playing field as a female being out here.

Jackie Velasquez Ross 22:12
Absolutely, I would definitely see as a woman and as a person of color black woman, I feel safer and I have talked to, in my role, I’m a recruiter, I talk to a lot of women who work in this space, and people just feel so much more comfortable, like being on a screen. And I’ve had people tell me about, I mean, really just like gory and like really horrible things that have happened to them in the workspace and why they want to work remotely because they just feel so much safer as a woman as a person of color as someone who’s gay or queer. Like they don’t have to answer so many more questions or feel compelled to show up a certain way or hide themselves. The screen is is like protected. It’s a shield, which we cover, you know, and so, I mean for me like I got detect, like I was working in advertising, I became a recruiter, I was working in creative recruiting. And then I got into digital design recruiting. And then I worked at Facebook and Instagram. And then I started a family. And I just knew I couldn’t commute two hours one way from San Francisco down to the peninsula. And I was introduced to someone who was leading recruiting at the time at envision and just worked out. So I came over and been here for almost two years, and it’s been an amazing ride. And I really, I love everyone I work with and I’ve had some really amazing experiences throughout my career. And I’ve also had some really terrible ones. Whether it was because I was a woman or because I was a person of color. It’s just kind of it really just depends. It has depended on culture and in just the things going on in the world, but I’m incredibly privileged and fortunate. To be wearing him today to work with really amazing people like you. But yeah, I’ve definitely had some really shitty stuff happen. Yeah. Like, I look in the way that I present and it sucks. It really sucks. And it’s definitely real. And I’ve had moments where I didn’t realize what was happening. And then hindsight I’m like, oh, that definitely happened because I’m black that definitely have some woman like, I definitely want to go white do definitely want to happen to all white woman like, I mean, I don’t know. Yeah, so there’s so many like gory details I could get into but

Dorcie Lovinsky 24:39
it’s just funny that you it’s funny that you just said that because I grew up in a predominantly Caucasian white surroundings, right. I’ve always been the token. I’ve always been the one that like, doesn’t look like everyone else, right, especially the cheerleader. Way back in the day. cheerleading was still new, right. And oftentimes now I find that I check myself a lot more when things happen. And I and I, I actually look and I’m like, wait, that wouldn’t have happened if I were different. And I oftentimes go to white counterparts for predominantly white males, to ask them to check myself. And I’ve done it several times throughout my career because we’re labeled as emotional. Black women are emotionally black or emotional women, right? Like everyone is like, you’re just too much. And so I, it’s, it’s so much more validating. And it’s sad that I even have to do this when you tell a story to a white male, and he’s as shocked as you were, and is more reactive than you were because you’re trying not to come off as being bad. Yeah,

Jackie Velasquez Ross 25:46
totally. I’ve had so many of those experiences or like he was one of the things that I do is I have a couple of really great now friends but past colleagues that I will go and I’ll say, hey, this thing happened. What do you think? This, I like that gut check with them. I also like go back and say, Hey, this is how much I’m making right now. How much are you making in a similar role at a different company? Because I want to know, or Hey, I’m maybe going to go into a new role. How much should I be asking for? Because they’re making the money, right? Yep. I always encourage people to do stuff like that. But it’s sad that we have to.

Yeah, as of

Dorcie Lovinsky 26:28
now, completely agree. It’s, we’re in an interesting, we’re interesting, where, but again, like I said, at the beginning, I’m hopeful I’m hopeful that things can change I am. I actually told my team today I was like, I’m because I’m new to managing and I’m very, like, transparent. I like speak about everything that’s on my mind. I feel like Dude, like, why am I holding anything back? Like, it’s just doing a disservice. And so I mentioned today because it was told to me that they think that sometimes into like, I’m too cheery, Too early in the morning, but we’re all across time zones, so it’s okay. And I was like, basically, I’m always optimist, I will always try to find some some happy light in a conversation. Even if people see it as being really crappy. I will try to find that happiness, because that’s how I make it through my day. I totally make it through my life. You know, the times where I don’t do that know that something’s really wrong. And then I’m probably like really beamed down but then like, the next day, I’ll, I’ll bring it back up. Like, that’s been my coping mechanism with this world. And the things that I’ve been dealt in this world is to always try to turn it into this positive, happy other, the glass half full. It’s going to get better. This too shall pass like all of these things is how I cope with this world because this world has been and I bet you too, too. We’ve been dealt some shitty postcards God God call a spade a spade, but I’m grateful for each of you. I’m grateful for the conversations that we have. I’m grateful for the time spent. I’m grateful for being able to build a community like this and a job that I love. Because it just makes this more it makes the job more tasty. A little bit more spice.

Jackie Velasquez Ross 28:19
You know, Dorothy, I totally hear you. And one of the things that I’ve been working on is trying to not be the like, eternal optimist because it is our coping mechanism. And I guess it’s okay, but at the same time, it’s not because it’s okay to feel like things are super shitty and like, and be in that moment and like, fully feel it and then move on. And it’s okay to not always have to turn something into something great. Yeah, actually have permission to like be fucking mad or upset. And like not feel optimistic about something or like, like there’s a guy grasses. Oh, greener are not always greener like whatever like phrase you want to throw into a situation. It’s actually like, okay, and we should feel okay with things not being okay. Sometimes

Christian Clark 29:13
that is hard. Like, I feel you both have this, that internal optimism whereas I’m I play more I play more of the role right like, I see that poor black man. I know what everyone thinks I am, how I’m going to behave, how I’m going to react, how I’m going to whatever be just be and it’s always been okay well, I’m gonna do the opposite of that. I’m going to refine I speaking the way that I carry myself my appearance, my my hair, my beautiful Go team got going on

Dorcie Lovinsky 29:51
and that facial hair.

Christian Clark 29:54
Never been a thing. I’ve always hated my beard until I’d say maybe six months ago. I love it. It’s always been babyface babyface. Let’s get it off. Because I know that that makes me look, but one that makes me look a little bit more foreign, which is always gonna be something that and not just like a regular black guy, right? Like, depending on where I am they think I’m from Brazil, or they think I’m from Puerto Rico or Dr. And I’m like, Yes, see? Mm hmm. But just don’t ask me. Because I don’t really know Portuguese that way. That much. But playing the role is this. I’m so used to it because that’s what I was working to do. So it’s like, Okay, I know that these are sort of the checkboxes that I’m I have to abide by. And now just unchecking them to say no, this is just me. Accept me. See me. And if you don’t like me, so be it.

Jackie Velasquez Ross 30:57
Yeah. It’s so hard like I feel like how do we how do you get to a place like for someone who’s younger, or someone just like in a place in their life where like, we’ve had to play these roles, we’ve had to, like, change ourselves. How do you get to a place where you feel comfortable enough to, like, not feel that way? Or not feel like you have to be the eternal optimist or be something that society wants you to be like, how do you get to that point in your life?

Dorcie Lovinsky 31:29
I think it’s internal reflection, speaking to a therapist, and doing some soul searching, right, like, I changed, I used to try to please everyone. And that was my chameleon pneus growing up, and I was able to shape that or shake that by doing doing the yoga, doing the yoga in the sense of like, not just the poses, but like really following the yoga and thinking about it. me as a person and thinking internally and being able to sit with myself and get to know who this beautiful Goddess is, that is called Dorsey Gabrielle Victoria Levitsky. Right like you can. The other problem too is being a child of an immigrant for me has been really hard because you’re trying to live up to their standards, right? Like, I tell the story all the time. I got a 98 on the test. My mom’s like, why the other two points, right? Like you’re always trying to live up to the standard always trying to be good enough. Well, it’s harder when you’re still living under the roof of that person. But when you’re able to remove yourself from that situation, you will find that you are always good enough you are who you are, and they help to shape you. But know that I think also tapping into a network of people who are like minded. I, my cousin, my little cousin and she is in college or going to college, or at sophomore year of college. And in front of her mom, we’re on FaceTime in front of her mom. I said you Your mom loves you and tries to do everything for you. But know that you don’t need to do everything that she says, know that you have a mind of her own and that she’s trying to help you, but you can be whoever you want to be, you know, and just know that and my aunt laughs in the background, because she knows that she’s trying to impose herself and her views and everything on her. And they do it for years, right? That’s what you do as a parent. But then there’s a time where like, you have to spread your wings and be allowed to like, do you? Yes. And I’ve always been the person to like, do that. And that’s just that’s that’s a story for another day.

Jackie Velasquez Ross 33:33
Yeah. Christian, would you like agree and maybe say like, it comes also probably time.

Christian Clark 33:39
Oh, yeah. And repetition, practice. I mean, you you have to practice at it. Every day. I’m like, you know, I’ve started to give myself some affirmations every day and like, the first thing is, do I feel good in my body? Check. Great. Let’s move on. To You know, you are worthy. You are You are not alone. Failure you, you know you can succeed you can continue to catch on you are able you are able and capable to strive all the way. Yep. Without question. Yep. And it’s hard to keep up there. But we have to now there’s no there’s no turning back. Because I will refuse to raise a family with some of the just bs that I’ve seen in the f hat and the way that people have been treating people. It is just obscene and grotesque. What, what do you gain? What do you gain from the way that we’re treated?

Jackie Velasquez Ross 34:54
Well, I think it’s, the big thing is like power other people Are don’t want to lose their power other people are insecure.

Christian Clark 35:04
Yeah. True.

Jackie Velasquez Ross 35:07
I honestly think those are the two thing is power and insecurity. But as we all know, like when everyone is at the table, everyone does better whether it’s in business, whether it’s in like, personal life, whether it’s in like the advancement of our society, like, there’s no reason why everyone shouldn’t have an equal share of the pie.

Christian Clark 35:30
Thanks all for joining the conversation. We hope you enjoyed this first installment of our series. Next up, we’ll have a product manager and engineer featured on in the conversation to learn about their experiences, just as we shared ours. We hope that you’ll continue listening and super excited to hear from them. Amazing. I’m so glad we got to do this. Oh my god. Yeah. It’s therapeutic.

Dorcie Lovinsky 36:06
Take care of y’all. So yeah, I need y’all. I need y’all. See you next.

Christian Clark 36:11
I take care.

Steve Gates 36:15
Thanks again everybody for listening. I’m sure if you’re anything like me definitely looking forward to hearing more of these conversations from Jackie Dorsey and Christian. As always, everybody in legal wants me to remind you the views here are just my own. They don’t represent any of my current or former employers. And look, I say it every time and I mean it every time but especially on these topics. Time I know is the only true luxury any of us have, was incredibly humbled. You want to spend any of it listening to this show. So thanks again. Look forward to more in this series. And as always, stay crazy

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